Part of Thud! i didn't understand

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Part of Thud! i didn't understand

Postby unseenu » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:13 am

I have recently started reading Thud! and the other day i came across a paragraph which didn't quite make sense,can someone please clear it up for me.The bit i'm unsure of is on page 182 in the paperback version where it describes carrot preparing the barricades for the upcoming riot:

'Well done captain,'said Vimes,as they stood like islands in the flood.'But I think there is a little bit of planning you may have overlooked...'
'Really,sir? I think I've covered everything,'said carrot,looking puzzled.
Vimes slapped him on the back.
'Probably not this one'he said and added,but only to himself:because you ,captain, are not a bastard.


the not a bastard thing just comes out of nowhere,is it something to do with the 'all coppers are bastuds' graffiti that was mentioned earlier? thanking you in advance for an explanation.

PS Apologies mods if this counts as using bad language
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Postby Tonyblack » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:39 am

Not bad language - that would be accusing Terry of bad language too. :wink:

My understanding of the phrase is that Vimes considers himself to be a devious bastard and a dirty fighter. While Carrot might think he has covered all bases, Vimes thinks like the criminals. He understands the way that their minds work.

In a fight, for example, Carrot would fight be a set of rules that wouldn't even consider fighting dirty. Vimes would, because he knows that criminals don't fight fairly.

I hope that helps. :D
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:50 am

tonyblack wrote:In a fight, for example, Carrot would fight be a set of rules that wouldn't even consider fighting dirty. Vimes would, because he knows that criminals don't fight fairly.

Which is how he got his arm broken in Fifth Elephant because he would stick to the rules of boxing rather than go in like a street fighter
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Postby raisindot » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:44 pm

This is a common narrative approach PTerry uses in many of the books; to use a character's interior motivations as a means of foreshadowing an action that a character (often Vimes) will take without actually revealing what it is at the time.

In this case, the "bastard action" was (later revealed by Vetinari in his recap of the event) Vimes providing booze to both the trolls and dwarfs to get them so knackered they wouldn't remember to fight. That's something Carrot would never have thought of. In fact, pre-TFE, Carrot would have stepped between the two sides and stopped the fighting through sheer force of personality (as he did in Men at Arms). In post-TFE, Carrot no longer has this "kingly" power, and Vimes resolves these same conflicts the old-fashioned way--either through violence or trickery.

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