After Snuff.....

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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby Archaeologist » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:26 am

LilMaibe wrote:If I have a single original work on the net, for example on fictionpress or the like, aka somewhere where it is available for free, I won't be able to get published professional, aka, contract and all.
It doesn't matter if the work on the net is, for example, some romance short story, while what I try to get published is a alternate history-sci-fi novel. (Which is one of the things I'm working on, actually).
The laws here suck like that.


That's insane! Bonkers! :shock:
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:58 am

Archaeologist wrote:
LilMaibe wrote:If I have a single original work on the net, for example on fictionpress or the like, aka somewhere where it is available for free, I won't be able to get published professional, aka, contract and all.
It doesn't matter if the work on the net is, for example, some romance short story, while what I try to get published is a alternate history-sci-fi novel. (Which is one of the things I'm working on, actually).
The laws here suck like that.


That's insane! Bonkers! :shock:


Exactly.
And for self-publishing/print-on-demand I lack a trustworthy editor/money to buy the package from the services that include an editor.
(For those interested: I'm trying to get a fantasy novel and an alternate history novel published. Latter concerning a scientist traveling into the past in order to prevent the Hiroshima and Nakasaki bombing by preventing the WW2 from happening...)
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby rockershovel » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:29 am

I was finding this thread increasingly incomprehensible, but a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel appears.

French and German law differs significantly from English law in a number of respects. I assume that what our putative author is mistakenly referring to is summarised here http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/?p=3644

It would be correct to suggest that a work of fiction, once published, is irrevocably associated with that author. English, and American law allows the commercial and authorial rights to be sold as a complete and single transaction, German and French law don't. So, if a right of authorship could be demonstrated, a contract of the US type requiring a complete buy-out of all rights would be problematical in Germany.

However I'd also have to interpret that as meaning that writing fanfic was a similar infringement of TP's right of authorship in respect of those characters, although whether he is actually concerned about fanfic I have no idea. American SF authors tend to be fairly blase about it, on the basis that accepting the free publicity is a lesser evil than the main option of protracted and expensive legal proceedings to no ultimate useful end.

However, Conan Doyle's reply applies; to the effect that there is no conceivable incentive for the original, published author to collaborate with an unpublished newcomer, since the benefiots are entirely one-sided, as are the drawbacks.

As it happens, my wife has at times worked as a "reader" for a publishing house in the UK, and her view is that most of the work submitted to her is simply not good enough and rejected on that basis. If that's the case regarding the small percentage that gets through the initial selection, and given the sheer unreadability of a lot of the convoluted trilogies found on the "fantasy" shelves, then the quality of what ends up in the bin, or deleted unread must be pretty dire
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:39 am

I am refering to what publishers told me when I was mailing and calling them for further information of the -hand in manuscript- politics (they differ)

Almost each time I have been ask if I already published something (original of course) elsewhere.
When I answered, truthfully, that I have they usually asked where.
To which I would answer online.
To which they'd always inform me that they couldn't publish me then, even if what I want to get published isn't the same material as the one online.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby raisindot » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:02 pm

LilMaibe wrote:Trying nothing of these.

But it's the following:

If I have a single original work on the net, for example on fictionpress or the like, aka somewhere where it is available for free, I won't be able to get published professional, aka, contract and all.
It doesn't matter if the work on the net is, for example, some romance short story, while what I try to get published is a alternate history-sci-fi novel. (Which is one of the things I'm working on, actually).
The laws here suck like that.


I don't understand that at all. You're saying that where you live if you ever have something published for free, legally you'll never ever ever have a chance to have a different work published in a book or paying magazine? That must mean that there's not a single paid writer in your country who has ever published in a small literary press, blogged, tweeted, or created a wen site for publishing stories.

This is completely opposite to the U.S., where most published fiction writers start out by publishing stories in small literary journals or on their blogs. Of course, here the odds of having a story actually read by a publisher are nigh on impossible--agents actually serve as the gatekeepers, and it's nearly impossible to get an agent to read a work of fiction unless you have a personal connection to one. But that's neither here nor there.

My advice for you is to not use your real name when putting free stuff online so it can never be connected back to you.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:36 pm

raisindot wrote:
LilMaibe wrote:Trying nothing of these.

But it's the following:

If I have a single original work on the net, for example on fictionpress or the like, aka somewhere where it is available for free, I won't be able to get published professional, aka, contract and all.
It doesn't matter if the work on the net is, for example, some romance short story, while what I try to get published is a alternate history-sci-fi novel. (Which is one of the things I'm working on, actually).
The laws here suck like that.


I don't understand that at all. You're saying that where you live if you ever have something published for free, legally you'll never ever ever have a chance to have a different work published in a book or paying magazine? That must mean that there's not a single paid writer in your country who has ever published in a small literary press, blogged, tweeted, or created a wen site for publishing stories.

This is completely opposite to the U.S., where most published fiction writers start out by publishing stories in small literary journals or on their blogs. Of course, here the odds of having a story actually read by a publisher are nigh on impossible--agents actually serve as the gatekeepers, and it's nearly impossible to get an agent to read a work of fiction unless you have a personal connection to one. But that's neither here nor there.

My advice for you is to not use your real name when putting free stuff online so it can never be connected back to you.


That might lead to getting sued by the publisher if they ever find out. :(
It's a real mess.
Funny thing is:
If I'd use print-on-demand and would make money with it it would actually be easier to get a contract...
*coughbecausetheywantapieceofthecakecough*
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby DaveC » Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:34 pm

Interesting article here (mainly concerning films but I thought it was relevant) stating that we now live in the agge of fanfiction.

It's a very interesting read.

:geek:

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/motion-captured/posts/the-bigger-picture-muppets-avengers-and-life-in-the-age-of-fanfiction
Adventures of a Film Geek - My Blog

Check out my short film!

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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby Who's Wee Dug » Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:37 pm

And a bit too long for me to read to the end. :|
He willnae tak' a drink! I think he's deid! , on the other hand though A Midgie in yir hand is worth twa up yir kilt.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby cabbagehead » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:23 am

Haven't we always lived in the age of fanfiction? What are folk tales if not fanfiction? Arthurian legend is fanfiction whose canon was long lost, and the story gets retold over and over with emphasis on a different character or relationship each time.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby high eight » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:22 pm

cabbagehead wrote:Haven't we always lived in the age of fanfiction? What are folk tales if not fanfiction? Arthurian legend is fanfiction whose canon was long lost, and the story gets retold over and over with emphasis on a different character or relationship each time.


No, because I doubt if the writer of Aerhurian legend was bothered by other writers using his characters in their own stories, imitating his style and having tamtrums when their fanon clashed with his canon. :roll:
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:54 pm

high eight wrote:
cabbagehead wrote:Haven't we always lived in the age of fanfiction? What are folk tales if not fanfiction? Arthurian legend is fanfiction whose canon was long lost, and the story gets retold over and over with emphasis on a different character or relationship each time.


No, because I doubt if the writer of Aerhurian legend was bothered by other writers using his characters in their own stories, imitating his style and having tamtrums when their fanon clashed with his canon. :roll:


Then? Y'know, you should really, really consider finish a sentence before posting it. Hard to keep track of your thoughts otherwise.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby high eight » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:23 pm

LilMaibe wrote:
high eight wrote:
cabbagehead wrote:Haven't we always lived in the age of fanfiction? What are folk tales if not fanfiction? Arthurian legend is fanfiction whose canon was long lost, and the story gets retold over and over with emphasis on a different character or relationship each time.


No, because I doubt if the writer of Arthurian legend was bothered by other writers using his characters in their own stories, imitating his style and having tamtrums when their fanon clashed with his canon. :roll:


Then? Y'know, you should really, really consider finish a sentence before posting it. Hard to keep track of your thoughts otherwise.


What are you talking about? :lol:

You should really consider reading other people's post occasionally. It'll mnake you look less of an idiot.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby Tonyblack » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:48 pm

This is getting kind of tedious now with the pair of you taking shots at each other.

Please keep the thread on topic and keep your personal animosity to each other off the board.

I think I speak for a lot of the members here when I say that we are getting pretty tired of it.

Lil'Maibe - I'll say to you what I said to Quatermass a few months back - don't post in anger. If something has made you angry, then walk away, think about your response and then, if you still think you you have a valid point, then by all means make that point, but not in anger, as people might actually respect your opinion.

Quatermass seems to have taken onboard what was said and I have to commend him for his recent posts.

High eight - I feel that you are doing a certain amount of winding-up here. It's not funny any more.

If necessary I will temporarily lock this thread until things calm down, but I hope I won't have to do that.

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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby LilMaibe » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:00 pm

I will behave. Up there I just wanted to point out that a bit of height's sentence seemed lost, seeing he started an If-sentence, but never gave a -then-
On a note, if I may add: I find it very stuck-up and stupid of height to continue claiming ALL fanfiction-writers are as he sees them. Just because he doesn't like fanfiction their writers aren't automatically vile retards with no skills. And on a second note: If I may I'd like to end height's sentence there:
If the writers of old would have been bothered by [lots and lots of many mean cliches and ill opinions about fanfiction writers], we would not HAVE the arthurian legends, no robin hood, no Odyssee, or many other stories.

As they were all based on true events, which over the years got muddled etc.
What we have of the legends today, the best known versions, are the summary of the best the fanon has to offer.
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Re: After Snuff.....

Postby Tonyblack » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:55 pm

LilMaibe wrote:I will behave. Up there I just wanted to point out that a bit of height's sentence seemed lost, seeing he started an If-sentence, but never gave a -then-
On a note, if I may add: I find it very stuck-up and stupid of height to continue claiming ALL fanfiction-writers are as he sees them. Just because he doesn't like fanfiction their writers aren't automatically vile retards with no skills. And on a second note: If I may I'd like to end height's sentence there:
If the writers of old would have been bothered by [lots and lots of many mean cliches and ill opinions about fanfiction writers], we would not HAVE the arthurian legends, no robin hood, no Odyssee, or many other stories.

As they were all based on true events, which over the years got muddled etc.
What we have of the legends today, the best known versions, are the summary of the best the fanon has to offer.

Did you read my green post, or are you just determined to have the last word?

I've read high eight's posts and although he has made it clear that he doesn't read or care to read fan fiction, he has never suggested that people who write it are "vile retards no skills." The only person who has suggested that is you yourself. You come across as being overly defensive to fan fiction and it's getting tiresome.

I don't read or care to read fan fiction either. I have made that clear, yet you haven't accused me of thinking fan fiction writers are "vile retards".

I would suggest that, as you can't seem to get along with high eight, that you avoid him.
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