2012 come on!

(For General Discussion)

Moderators: Jason, Toothy, Tonyblack

Postby Dotsie » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:52 pm

kakaze wrote:Humans have been around for 50,000 - 80,000 years old. However, we didn't really start causing problems until about 150 years ago.


Well we were causing the extinction of giant mammals thousands of years ago, so I suppose it depends on what you mean by causing problems. In terms of the atmospheric CO2 levels, Cretaceous foraminiferans had far more of an impact than us (although they made it colder, and it did turn out to be their on undoing). I can't help but feel there's a lesson there.
What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
User avatar
Dotsie
Member
 
Posts: 9413
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:07 am

Postby Batty » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:15 pm

Dotsie, as you are the most scientific person I know (I obviously need to enlarge my circle of friends), do you think climate change is a con - perpetrated by people with a vested interest, a genuine problem but caused by natural events (the Sun flaring, becoming hotter etc) or a problem that Man has to try to solve?
Going to my school was an education in itself. Which is not to be confused with actually getting an education (Schultz)
User avatar
Batty
Member
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:03 pm
Location: East Anglia

Postby Dotsie » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:28 pm

It's not a con, climate change is inevitable on a geological timescale anyway. But short-term, it doesn't make any sense to alter temperatures to outside our comfort zone. And being the cause of the biggest masss extinction ever seems a bit irresponsible :?
What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
User avatar
Dotsie
Member
 
Posts: 9413
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:07 am

Postby Tonyblack » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:18 pm

If anything Batty, the 'con' is being made by people with a vested interest to say that global warming doesn't exist. I read an article recently that says that whereas something like 75% of Americans believed global warming was a fact a few months ago, that figure has now dropped to around 50%.

It seems people would rather believe such people as Rush Limbaugh and his ilk than actual scientists. :(

I'm sure Dotsie will confirm that very few actual scientists believe it's a hoax.
"Goodness is about what you do. Not what you pray to."
User avatar
Tonyblack
Moderator
 
Posts: 28887
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:29 pm
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Postby Dotsie » Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:55 pm

Tonyblack wrote:I'm sure Dotsie will confirm that very few actual scientists believe it's a hoax.


Certainly none that are credible. Everyone's in agreement (except of course those with their own agenda) that temperatures are rising, most agree that it's because of man's influence on atmospheric composition, but how to stop it is causing problems. Our species has grown too large to radically change our energy consumption without loss of life in some countries and loss of comfort in others.
What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
User avatar
Dotsie
Member
 
Posts: 9413
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:07 am

Postby Jan Van Quirm » Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:26 pm

Tonyblack wrote:It seems people would rather believe such people as Rush Limbaugh and his ilk than actual scientists.

I'm sure Dotsie will confirm that very few actual scientists believe it's a hoax.

Well scientists can be wrong sometimes, but 2 of my best friends are geologists out in Australia (they both formerly worked in the National Geological Museum in Kensington - part of the Natural History Museum). They know absolutely that climate change is a recurring phenomenon and can most certainly confirm that
    1. climate change is a natural cyclic event on this planet
    2. it can be heavily influenced by increases in vulcanism and in accumulation of carbon gas discharges and more rarely by astronomical incursions (meteors, comets etc). Alex is one of the world's foremost experts and a published author on meteorites and non-Earth originating metals and rocks - hence the move to Oz as the Nullabor Plain is full of 'em.
    3. his wife Jenny is an archivist at the same Uni and she's been on geological surveys in New Zealand and also Antarctica. She's physically seen material drilled from deep under the ice from Antarctica's crustal rock strata, some of which dates back to when it formed part of Gondwanaland, the southern component of the supercontinent of Pangaea that separated around the time of the early dinosaurs during the Triassic. This shows pretty conclusive evidence of several Ice Ages, the Permian die-off (which killed a hugely significant percentage of plant and animal life, especially in the seas) and also evidence of previous holes (plural) in the ozone layer...
It's real people! :?
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Jan Van Quirm
Member
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Dunheved, Kernow

Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:39 pm

It is real, but I am going to try and live each day individually and try to be happy. There is no way to change anything "divine or destined", so enjoy what you have while you have it. Be good and do good.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
User avatar
Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit
Member
 
Posts: 3885
Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 7:25 pm
Location: Byron IL USA and The Quirm School for Young People ... it's genetic, you know

Postby Jan Van Quirm » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:20 pm

Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit wrote:It is real, but I am going to try and live each day individually and try to be happy. There is no way to change anything "divine or destined", so enjoy what you have while you have it. Be good and do good.

Look at it this way - it's happened before and the planet's still here more or less. Just different and usually with the absence of the species who helped cause the imbalance. :shock:

Take the warning like Dotsie mentioned and also the Wizards with their shadow Roundworld (The Science of the Discworld I, II & III) and try to do as much as you can to not make matters worse - even some of the more intelligent/responsible politicians (would that those 2 qualities would occur in one body occasionally :roll: ) can see this is the only way of avoiding seriously screwing with this Onlyworld we have... :x
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Jan Van Quirm
Member
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Dunheved, Kernow

Postby Dotsie » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:18 am

Jan Van Quirm wrote:Well scientists can be wrong sometimes


Nope.
What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
User avatar
Dotsie
Member
 
Posts: 9413
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:07 am

Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:01 pm

Dotsie wrote:
Jan Van Quirm wrote:Well scientists can be wrong sometimes


Nope.


:lol: Wondered if you'd bite! :wink:

Yes they do. It's all dependant on the level of knowledge at the time the hypothesis is formed. Darwin made boo-boos with how continental drift works, although his concept was perfectly sound. And as we get more informed about the Universe and physics/maths improves so scientists are finding holes in the Theory of Relativity - it's a good theory but it's not writ in stone. Nothing is certain except death and 'taxes'. The Auditors and their guidelines evolve too... :lol:
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Jan Van Quirm
Member
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Dunheved, Kernow

Postby poohcarrot » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:38 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote:
Dotsie wrote:
Jan Van Quirm wrote:Well scientists can be wrong sometimes


Nope.


:lol: Wondered if you'd bite! :wink:


Wasn't that a case of reverse biting? Dotsie knew her comment was silly and Jan bit? :lol:
"Disliking Carrot would be like kicking a puppy."
"You kicked a puppy," Lobsang said accusingly.
User avatar
poohcarrot
Member
 
Posts: 10425
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:11 pm
Location: NOT The land of the risen Son!!

Postby Batty » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:49 pm

Thank you for your thoughts.
I don't drive & walk everywhere I can, as well as recycle whatever the council agrees to collect on a weekly basis, but I am becoming increasingly irritated about the level of preaching being force-fed to me. It worries me that the person advising Brown to force home owners to install double glazing actually has his own double glazing company, and that energy efficient light bulbs contain mercury & can induce epileptic fits in certain people. The more that people try to dictate to me, the more I want to dig my heels in and refuse to comply.
Going to my school was an education in itself. Which is not to be confused with actually getting an education (Schultz)
User avatar
Batty
Member
 
Posts: 4656
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:03 pm
Location: East Anglia

Postby poohcarrot » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:16 pm

Batty

I ORDER YOU TO NOT GIVE ME A LOT OF MONEY!

(like the Dean in Hogfather) :lol:
"Disliking Carrot would be like kicking a puppy."
"You kicked a puppy," Lobsang said accusingly.
User avatar
poohcarrot
Member
 
Posts: 10425
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:11 pm
Location: NOT The land of the risen Son!!

Postby Catch-up » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:31 pm

I always love your responses Dotsie!

We try to look for ways to make a difference.
User avatar
Catch-up
Member
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:19 am
Location: Michigan, U.S.A.

Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:05 pm

Batty wrote:Thank you for your thoughts.
I don't drive & walk everywhere I can, as well as recycle whatever the council agrees to collect on a weekly basis, but I am becoming increasingly irritated about the level of preaching being force-fed to me. It worries me that the person advising Brown to force home owners to install double glazing actually has his own double glazing company, and that energy efficient light bulbs contain mercury & can induce epileptic fits in certain people. The more that people try to dictate to me, the more I want to dig my heels in and refuse to comply.

I soooo agree with you Batty - :x In 1997 when we thought we might be getting a government with a social conscience for once it turned out we got a champagne-gurgling, supercilous, preachy/whingy, "out for what my mates can get me - we know best now do as you're told' nanny state.

The reason I prefer (just) Brown to Blair is that he at least has the bloody decency to look sheep-faced when he trots out the latest fairy tale (definitely of the Grimm variety) on health, economy, climate, world poverty and whatever 'lifebelt' issue that they think they can look good in for 5 minutes whilst they dream up another way to torment normal people. Back in 2006 I was made to feel like a shiftless benefit cheat whilst appealing the withdrawal of said 'perk' after paying my NI for over 30 years. It's only down to my own bloody-mindedness that I didn't wimp out and solve the problem permanently by removing myself from this scuddy country and the planet altogether - only to find recently (what a 'surprise'! :evil: ) that these same sanctimonious gets are not averse to dipping their own trotters shoulder-deep or futher into the Treasury golden piggy bank because 'it's not against the rules'. And who made those honourable ladies and gentlemen?

All governments love to say how they're going to 'save' us from the latest malaise and the end of the world's about the biggest vote winner you could get - but they'll all cock it up of course and all that'll happen will be another load of hot air from the White House, Kremlin and any other seat of government to add to the carbon emissions we've already got far too much of.

I honestly think now that my vote has no bloody value whatsoever as it's just another bunch of greedy amoral jerks out to get what they can and the only difference is that the next intake of idiots will either raise taxes a bit or, if the other bunch gets lucky, they'll raise it a lot more and either will find other perks to plunder and still do nothing whatsoever of any significance except blame each other and us for being such alcoholic abusing, unhealthy, employment-dodging, ASBO-collecting (anti-social behaviour order :roll: ) morons. Meanwhile, like Batty and other sensible people I'll just keep doing my own little things to keep my own bit of conscience and faith in things that I hold dear happyish. And I'll even vote too, as it's a right that must be exercised even it makes not a blind bit of difference, but I really don't think that it'll do any good.

Pooh - gotta love reverses :lol:
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Jan Van Quirm
Member
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Dunheved, Kernow

PreviousNext

Return to The Broken Drum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], TurnitinBot [Bot] and 4 guests