Roman Polanski

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Postby poohcarrot » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:02 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote:All I would say on the debate is - why now?


Are there any Israel/Palestine/US talks looming in the near future?

As in "You-stop-expanding-your-settlements-on-the-West-Bank-and-we'll-let-you-have-RP-back" type of thing.
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Postby Trish » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:07 pm

Polanski was never an American citizen. Before his wife was murdered, he was entitled to live and work in the US. Before and after, he had a work permit... they met through a studio-thing.

Here's the thing.
There was a plea agreement in place with a California judge.

The judge, for peculiar reasons, vacated his own agreement (this is so rare as to be "never") by saying RP did not show for his hearing. Under federal law, he did not have to, his lawyer can appear for him in all proceedings, save criminal trial.

More unusually, this now-deceased judge seems to have lost the paperwork. Open civil cases are passed to another lawyer in the same firm or reassigned to another judge in the same division.

Where is the paperwork?


I'm one of those who do not agree with the death penalty. Because I don't know if I could pull the switch, inject the whatzit or whatever.

That said, I am firmly FOR the death penalty in underage rape /incest cases.
Yes, because I have a beautiful daughter and I would not have a problem killing nay son of a bitch who harmed her. Do not steal someone's youth.


Where is the victim's mother?
Why now?
Usually, civil comes after criminal, but RP was legally permitted to plea the crim charges (missing paperwork) and pay large to the victim.

Again, why now?

The US neds to be seen getting tough on crimes against persons, that's why.
If that wre really true, there are plenty of rapists locally the FBI could deal with.
They want Polanski simply because he is high-profile.

While I firmly agree that moneyed status should never insulate anyone from prosecution, by the same logic, neither should it cause unwarranted investigation or, in this case, extradition.


Pooh, we know you dont' like the US. many of us who live dont' like a lot about it either.
But I didnt' know you disliked Irish-Americans quite so much.

Ted Kennedy never funelled IRA cash. Back in the day, pre-1922, his father Joe kennedy sent wads of the stuff to the Fianna Fail. Which is not the same thing at all. At all.
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:57 pm

poohbcarrot wrote:I refuse to be hypocritical and say what a loss Michael Jackson is to the world. I didn't like his music and didn't like him as a person.

He was a has-been popstar and a suspected paedophile.

There are more important things happening in the world.


His opinions change with his mood. :evil:

If the bastage who stole my innocence was still alive I would go to his house with a lead pipe and exact my own justice.

It is ironic that all this occurred while I was whiling away my time in a "Christian" camp where anyone who showed up as a staff member who really was a TRUE Christian showed up they got the boot out the door really quick for noticing the "oddities" in a supposed christian camp like beating the children claiming it is in the bible when IT IS NOT in the bible to beat your children, or, and this is my favorite, when a staff member tried to seduce me by saying that sometimes a girl just needs someone to "take her father's place in her life".

Passing that little offer up made my life a living hell for over a year.

The Mother of the poor girl wanted a role in a movie and sold her daughters body for the chance. I understand the girl wanting to "put it behind her" espectially if she has a career that will be ruined by bringing it all up again... OR if it is going to bring up bad memories that she will have to deal with.

You may Hate the US if you want to Pooh, personally, I am not fond of Japan for killing my family members in Hawaii. I don't like the fact that my grandfather would not even speak about his time in WWII due to PSTD. What about the women who were forced to be sex slaves in WWII? They were chained to bed and gang raped over and over, some beaten to death by people you may pass in the street. No drugs or champagne there. Japan has admitted fault in that Pooh.

I think a country that sells young girls USED underwear has some real issues. Don't preach from the pulpit when you live in a place that has some despicable things going on. The world is NOT a good place.

What about the Mafia members who were invited to a big (edit)fake prize party and got arrested that way? You got a problem with that too? You have picked a very interesting topic to spout your propaganda.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby Tonyblack » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:27 pm

Ok guys a discussion is one thing and even a bit of 'stirring' to get a reaction is acceptable, but I think this thread has gone too far and has stopped being 'friendly' debate.

I've had PMs from members about this thread (no names mentioned) and I've tried to point out that maybe there was some misunderstandings made in posts that were made. I still believe that was the case.

Now I'm seeing people genuinely annoyed and/or upset about this and it's stopped being a friendly discussion - it's started to deteriorate and I think the topic has been talked out.

I'm not going to lock the thread at this time, but I hope we can salvage some good feeling here.

Come on - we're better than this. We don't all agree with each other and that's how it should be, but I don't believe anyone here has any ill will against anyone else.

Tony.
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Postby Batty » Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:42 pm

If I was you, pooh, I'd stop now! Image

I don't know if you started the 'debate' for fun or as a wind-up, but it's time to admit that Polanski should be locked up and the key thrown away.
The question 'why now?' doesn't matter. He should start his prison term sooner rather than later.

It also shouldn't be a question of which country is the most guilty of atrocities commited.
Most countries have something to be ashamed of, so let's not start blamimg each other for unjustifiable acts perpetrated in their name.
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Postby Cheery » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:32 pm

I seriously don't know what all the fuss is about.

Apparently, the Police claims that they didn't even know that Polanski had an international warrant of arrest (You can hear I used the dix again :lol: ) until last week and thus didn't arrest him before. (hard to believe though)

What I can see is that our government is doing what it usually does: trying desperatly to stay neutral again, which is difficult at the moment because we had many problems with various countries lately. :?

I personally think that it was right to arrest him, even though he was invited, the truth is that he is a lawbreaker. What he did was a very, very serous crime and the law should come before pride. It shouldn't all be politics again, because it isn't: It's about law, not politics.

The question was: why now? I ask: If not now, when?

I didn't mean to get the discussion all stirred up again, but I just wanted to give you my opinion. (as it's my home country that was annoying everyone; it sometimes annoys me too, believe me :lol: ) I agree with Tony and Batty: let's all just calm down and see what happens next :)
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Postby Catch-up » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:01 pm

Just read this and thought it was interesting:

Worst for Polanski, however, is probably the provocation that he himself gave to prosecutors. In 1978, when he was brought to trial, Polanski fled because he believed the judge sentencing him was not going to accept the plea bargain he'd agreed to, a 90-day mental evaluation at Chico State Prison. In 2008, filmmaker Marina Zenovich -- who had no prior relationship with Polanski -- released a documentary, Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired, that corroborated Polanski's fear that his plea bargain wouldn't have taken effect. Polanski tried to use the information presented in the film to get his case dismissed. Even the prosecutor from the original trial said in the documentary that he didn't think the judge, who is now dead, had been fair to Polanski.

And for a while, it seemed as if Polanksi's strategy might work. Earlier this year, a new judge was willing to consider dismissing the case against him. But first, he wanted Polanski to show up in court. Polanski, however, would not appear.

This is Polanski's biggest problem: The judge's terms were reasonable. He gave Polanski three months to surface in L.A. and even hinted that the director would probably not serve jail time if he appeared. And yet Polanski refused. From the point of view of prosecutors, Polanski practically dared them to act. Gailey, too, has said that she would like to see him come back to deal with the case, though she has publicly forgiven him. "I hope that would mean I'd never have to talk about this again," she said in 2003 of his return. "Sometimes I feel like we both got a life sentence."



So I guess that addresses the "why now?" part.
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Postby poohcarrot » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:18 pm

I give up.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:55 pm

Catch-up wrote:Sorry Jan, but why not now? France refused to extradite him. If we had pressed the issue, we would have been the villans then as well. It's a position you get very used to being a citizen of this country, damned if you do, damned if you don't, and frankly it gets tiresome....

Catch-up as we're winding down I've only quoted the first bit and I agree with you that the US did pursue this strongly at times, especially at first - and France is notoriously tricky to work with at the best of times, even with very friendly allies/international partners.

Britain has also been in similar positions many times in the past. The best modern example of this is when we were finally allowed to extradite Ronald Biggs from Brazil, and even then that was only because he'd agreed to return after a newspaper waggled enough money under his nose - the Brazilians were still quite happy to shield him (but he was v. ill so let's be generous here... :evil: ). This was nearly 40 years after he escaped from prison where he was serving a long sentence for his part in the Great Train Robbery - and he also fled to Paris initially and from there to Australia with a new ID and plastic surgery. Then when the police were finally catching up he skipped on over to Brazil who were adamant on not extraditing as Biggs had fathered a child there. So I do understand where you're coming from Catch-up, and I know that the US have made several well-publicised attempts in the past.

But over 30 years? With enormous changes in European and international human rights law in the last decade alone? If the US had really had the will to pursue this, they could have done a lot more than they did do up until now.

Quick and final edit as I haven't been able to read this too thoroughly and only just managed to take in your post above properly :oops:
Polanski has been effectively thumbing his nose at the US over this for years so I have no sympathy for him whatsoever. If he's extradited then that's a victory for justice at least and I hope he pays dearly for it. Switzerland as always is a neutrality and only now acting on a request which perhaps could have been made much, much earlier, since Polanski has hardly been hiding himself. That is my point.
Last edited by Jan Van Quirm on Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby swreader » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:25 am

Batty wrote:If I was you, pooh, I'd stop now! Image

I don't know if you started the 'debate' for fun or as a wind-up, but it's time to admit that Polanski should be locked up and the key thrown away.
The question 'why now?' doesn't matter. He should start his prison term sooner rather than later.

It also shouldn't be a question of which country is the most guilty of atrocities commited.
Most countries have something to be ashamed of, so let's not start blamimg each other for unjustifiable acts perpetrated in their name.


Thanks Batty, I couldn't have said it better. And Pooh, have you learned anything from this sorry episode? There was no particular reason to start the thread in the first place, except to stir up trouble. And incidentally to continue your sniping at the US.

Shame on you!
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Postby poohcarrot » Thu Oct 01, 2009 3:38 am

My apologies for any offence caused.

I never ever said he should walk free. For what he did, I think he should be left to rot and die in prison - like he will do if extradited.

However, the manner of his arrest leads me to believe he will walk free.

As self-imposed punishment, I will suspend all posts to this forum for the month of October.
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:39 am

poohcarrot wrote:My apologies for any offence caused.

I never ever said he should walk free. For what he did, I think he should be left to rot and die in prison - like he will do if extradited.

However, the manner of his arrest leads me to believe he will walk free.

As self-imposed punishment, I will suspend all posts to this forum for the month of October.
It'll certainly be interesting to see if justice does prevail. Let's hope so. :)
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Postby Batty » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:52 am

I don't want pooh to suspend posting in October, as I enjoy (most) of the posts he submits.
An apology (which has been received) and a lesson learned is all that is required.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I say 'Come back, pooh!'
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Postby Tonyblack » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:14 am

I missed that bit. :oops:

Yes, I agree with batty - there's no need for you, Pooh, or anyone else to feel they can't stay on the site. Call this a learning process as I think a lot of us have learned from this. :)
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Postby Catch-up » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:42 pm

Thanks for clarifying Jan - I really do see your point. I would definitely not have any trouble believing there were some political reason for doing it now.

Pooh, please come back! I think this thread would have been fine if you had stuck to one debate point. If you simply wanted to debate the circumstances or the likelihood of the extradition, things would have been fine. Instead, you were all over the place. That caused two problems. First, it made it very difficult to determine what the debate actually was. And, second, one of the places you went sounded very much like a defense of the crime, and worse, sounded like you were laying some of the blame on the child herself.

As hard as we try on these forums, even with the smileys (is that the plural of smiley? :? ) it can be almost impossible to convey tone and emotion. That is why we have to be very, very careful of what we type. If you even remotely sound like you're defending a pedophile, you have to expect the kind of explosive heated response that was generated here.

And, besides, if you come back I will take you up on your bet. 8)
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