For those who like Lord of the Rings - and sweets.

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Postby poohbcarrot » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:17 pm

Wow! :shock:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:48 pm

*mutters something about how if they'd cast Sean Bean as Aragorn instead of the Dane she might not have minded so much in the battle scenes...* :oops: :lol:
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:07 am

Honestly Jan, no idea what you were talking about there & I've read the books and watched the films :oops: Does that make me one of the 'normal' fans then? :lol:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:35 am

You just aren't used to the rant Dotsie :lol: I'm a normal fan too who happens to like sharpening my claws on the lore nazis that infest Tolkien fan sites and like to think they know better than the author did about a STORY that they seem to think has to be treated as gospel truth... :evil:

OK - it goes like this PJ did a mostly brilliant job with the 1st instalment in getting the more important bits of the book translated reasonably well onto the big screen aside from giving Liv (Arwen) Tyler a sword and powers she didn't have, in a bit she wasn't in... this had to be done else she would have appeared on screen approx 3 times for as many seconds and probably wouldn't have bothered to turn up to the Sindarin (ELvish) lessons PJ invited all the principals to or indeed rehearsals as all Arwen does in canon in the actual book is look pretty and not say a single word.

So - Hollywood prob #1 No really meaty female roles whatsoever (except for Eowyn) but no one'll notice that one of the great heroes of Elven lore Glorfindel (who was the test run for Gandalf and the Balrog) gets chopped out in #1 film so Liv has something to do...

#2 film Lots of faffing about some of which was quite interesting to fans (Gandalf fighting Balrog at the roots of the Silvertine and then on top of the mountain) but mostly not and most certainly not having all of the Rohirrim from Edoras decamping to Helms Deep as
a) Eowyn never went near the place
b) she went in the opposite direction to Dunharrow with all the women and non-combatant men
c)there was no warg attack (bloody big rodent-looking wolves) and bust-up involving Aragorn getting a bit beaten up and run off a cliff, or indeed hallucinating about Ms Arwen whilst being licked by his horse and then chased back to Helm's Deep by the Uruk Hai.
d) No Elves from Lorien whatsoever in that Battle - they were having fun with the Mirkwood Elves fighting Orcs in western Mirkwood at the time) but someone thought Haldir had 'gay attraction' (and Craig Parker conveniently came out when the movie did... :roll: ) and thought it'd be a good idea to get him killed very 'poignantly' right after Legolam went shield-boarding so the necessary gravitas was restored to the battle inside the Keep of the Hornburg

#3 film - Pellennor too long by far as already noted also
a) Frodo and Sam were nowhere near Osgiliath and Faramir released them in Ithilien not long after they taken Gollum prisoner - if they'd taken Frodo to Osgiliath (the ruined city on the river in Gondor) then the poor little sod would never have got to Mt. Doom in time to chuck the ring away as that would have added about 100 miles to the trek :evil:
b) Legolam was on foot miles (well away from the bloody Oliphaunts )attacking the much more urgent attack at the city gates and within the city after the enemy had broken in.
c) the ending was a complete and utter travesty forced on Jackson by the production team (and why he's now the production team on The Hobbit) so there was a 'proper' happy ending... :evil: :evil: :evil: which meant that the poor Hobbit heroes were robbed of their hour of glory when they evicted Saruman from Bag End and kicked out all the orcs and 'half-orcs' from the Shire, thus taking any credence and nobility from the dear little pixie people and convincing a generation of (mostly American) youth that the Hobbits did nothing but lounge around drinking, stuffing their faces and smoking pipes the live long day..... :x :x :x

These are small crimes against literature for the sake of the 'look' of a genre that could be argued as fairly low key in the pursuit of big box office and making the lead actors look good as often as possible. I don't hate any of the films - they're almost art in some places with the sets and in the casting too a lot of the time - Craig Parker was an excellent Haldir and didn't deserve the stupid mawkish slo-mo death scene. But it was more than he'd have done if they stuck to the book, so good on him for screwing some extra dosh and possibly preventing Ms Arwen's agent from suggesting that perhaps she DID fight at Helm's Deep as well and oh - oooo! wouldn't she look a bit prettier than Legolam doing the shiled boarding part? *throws up*

But this is Hollywood and at least they let Jackson stick to the book mostly which is more than they did for Pride and Prejudice (the Greer Garson version :roll: ). And at least Disney gave up the screen rights way back in the 70's - can you imagine a singing Nazgul! :shock:
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:05 pm

Thanks that's all completely clear now.




(Too afraid of you to add any mood smilies)
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Postby poohbcarrot » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:28 pm

:lol:

I love Jan having a rant at someone else instead of at me.

(I actually thought she was going to tear my head off for saying the films were boring)
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:50 pm

What can I say? :oops: :lol: Sorry Dotsie :oops:

It's a boring book in lots of places too. Several other bit's they cut I wouldn't have raised a finger to save (like Tom Bombadillio-rol-dol. In Lore *spits* he's actually quite interesting, but to read he makes me want to scream and if I met him I think I would tear his head off for general and gratuitous offences against poetry). It's not a perfect book by any means and it's sloooooow in a lot of places. After the 1st time I read it I regularly skipped the Tom and Lothlorien sections altogether to get to the 'good' bits. But it was my first and most influencing piece of literature and the more I read it the more I loved it, even though I hadn't read the The Hobbit beforehand and so a lot went over my head at first.

Now you know how lucky we are to have Terry 'cos I could never this passionate over a Discworld book 'cos they're actually better written, more logical and closer to my adult view of the world than LotR. And much, much funnier and insightful of course. That's why I don't love them as much as LotR, because that's pure and utterly beautiful fantasy, warts and disappointments notwithstanding - it's like comparing the Mona Lisa to Beryl Cooke's painting (that's not an insult as I love Beryl as much as Leo, but for different reasons) there is no comparison even though there are similarities.

Did I mention some time that I'm officially mad? :twisted:
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:43 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote:What can I say? :oops: :lol: Sorry Dotsie :oops:


S'okay :lol:

Did I mention some time that I'm officially mad? :twisted:


As long as it's official :wink:
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Postby chris.ph » Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:00 pm

my god that rant was so long it took to long to load and fatal errored :lol: :lol:
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Postby bikkit » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:04 pm

Can you say that aigain- in english?
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:54 pm

Dotsie wrote:
Jan Van Quirm wrote:What can I say? :oops: :lol: Sorry Dotsie :oops:


S'okay :lol:

Did I mention some time that I'm officially mad? :twisted:


As long as it's official :wink:


WeeKelda wrote:Can you say that aigain- in english?


NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

Her head may explode and I find her "rants" sort of fascinating in a train wreck sort of way at times... She is quite correct about the "singing Nazguls" tho, shudders too icky for contemplation.

Oh BTW, so glad to see PoohbCarrot happy. :twisted:
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:49 pm

chris.ph wrote:my god that rant was so long it took to long to load and fatal errored :lol: :lol:

Awww chris! - you KNOW I've done longer than that one - and on here as well! :twisted:
"Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.” George Bernard Shaw
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Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:36 pm

*sings* Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, Get Yer Adverbs Here! Lolly, Lolly, Lolly Get yer Averbs Here! * Cackles and Flies off the the Swedish Pancake House for Crepes with Peaches and Loads of Whipped Cream * :twisted: :twisted:
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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Postby MattK » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:58 pm

Does the Swedish pancake house know that crepes are French?
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Postby poohbcarrot » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:03 am

I suppose she could just stick to Belgian waffles :lol:
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