happy days

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happy days

Postby pip » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:02 am

To reopen an old debate we have booked young Harry Benjamins Chistening for early august in Kimmage manor in Dublin(catholic ) . We got access to there because my Uncle is the local parish preiest there and used to teach in the college linked to it.
Lovely location with huge gardens and stuff.
We are having the christening despite the fact that i'm Agnostic and Mrs Pip is a non practicing Catholic at best.
The Chistening has become such an ingrained rite of passage that despite our lack of beliefs and changes in Irish society in respect of the catholic most people here would think us odd if we didn't have it.
Personally i don't mind. Its a nice ceromony and a great way to introduce Harry to the extended friends and family and the world in general but i know some think its silly to do a ceremony you don't believe in or its using the church for our own ends etc.
My own view is that the church provides a handy cultural structure for certain events (amrriage and death being two others) that even in this era of many turning there back on christianity these events will still be closely associated with it.
Just throwing a topic out there.

Location is as follows anyway . it looks pretty. :D
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Harry says hi
Last edited by pip on Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Conforumist » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:14 am

This Christian says "please don't do it"!
It's completely non-scriptural. Let Harry decide for himself, when he's old enough. And if he does, I hope it will by immersion.
It is a nice event though. :)
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby pip » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:19 am

The thing is i don't see it as scriptural are non scriptural at all . And HArry will be more than free to make his own mind up in the future with religion. The ceremony will not impact that either way
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Tonyblack » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:11 am

Whatever makes you feel comfortable is what I say. :) Some people take these things very seriously, some people see it as a sort of official 'welcome' and some people don't bother. Do it because you want to. My mother was appalled that I didn't have my kids baptised, but as far as I was concerned, it was none of her business. I certainly wasn't going to go through with a ceremony just to please her.

The important thing is that you ultimately let Harry decide.
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Tonyblack » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:13 am

Oh and be sure to read the His Dark Materials trilogy to him. ;)
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby pip » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:28 am

Tonyblack wrote:Oh and be sure to read the His Dark Materials trilogy to him. ;)


Have it on the shelf ready :lol:
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:40 am

Go for it Pip - it's a social/cultural thing as you say and having been part of catholic community from an early age that I wouldn't have know any difference the ceremony's more an excuse for a party (and pressies) than anything spiritual that matters a damn really. :dance:

It's not hypocritical either - enough 'practising' christians go to church on auto-pilot and/or fail to show any true spiritual commitment outside of it after all. The church stuff's for the grown ups more anyway and as you say Harry can do what he likes later on. ;)
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Catch-up » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:05 pm

All that matters is what you and your wife think. It sounds like a beautiful trip and a ceremony that you and others will enjoy for Harry. That's all that matters. What other people's beliefs are is meaningless, therefore their input on the matter is meaningless.
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Antiq » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:35 pm

First of all, Harry looks wonderful!!! :D Either you and Mrs pip are good-looking people, or he's a phenomenon :lol:

I was in the same boat as you, neither my husband nor I had any religious affiliations, I still don't - closest I can describe it is Humanist. Living as you do in a predominantly Catholic Ireland - even more so 20 years ago - I decided not to have mine Christened. My mother-in-law put me under a lot of pressure, even to the point of crying :roll: (not from a religious point of view, but a "what will the neighbours say" one)- and I almost caved, reckoning it wouldn't matter. My ex said it was up to me, he'd go with whatever I decided. I stuck to my guns. I felt it was more honest and they would later appreciate me not giving in to social pressure, which is the case.
However, when it came to Communion, my daughter did feel a bit left out and "different" for a while. She got over it though. You probably won't have that problem, even Catholic schools are a LOT more interdenominational than they used to be.

My advice (which is utterly personal and whatever you decide is entirely none of my business XD ) is go with whatever you think is best for Harry, not you or the neighbours or family or anyone else. Having him Christened or not is not going to make any difference to his freedom to decide for himself in future - how he is educated with regard to various religious beliefs is what counts. That's a lot easier these days in our more cosmopolitan and religiously tolerant society.
Final word, if Mrs pip wants him Christened, do it. At this point, whatever Mrs pip wants, Mrs pip should have :D .......just not Scientology, pleeaassee!! :lol:
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby raisindot » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:57 pm

You're doing the right thing, Pip. Ultimately, Harry will make his own decision on religion, but most little kids tend to be religious, and are often judgmental of those who don't 'follow the line.' Does he really want to be known as the kid who wasn't christened? It would be a social stigma that would mark him as 'different' not only among his friends, but among your family members as well. The harder choice may be if you're deciding to send him to Sunday School to prepare for Communion. I'm not Christian, and I'm about as much as close to an atheist as an agnostic can be, but both of my kids were circumcised and suffered through years of Hebrew School and were Bar Mitzvahed simply because I didn't want to deprive them of learning about their history and the important rituals of their religion, so at some point when they decide if the want to continue in the faith they at least can come from it from experience.
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby pip » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:03 pm

All good balanced views . We're going to do it pretty much to have the big day for Harry :D

And Antiq , he definitely got the looks from herself :D
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Antiq » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:07 pm

There needs to be a new secular naming ceremony that people can choose if they wish. Now there's a business idea :lol:
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby pip » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:09 pm

Antiq wrote:There needs to be a new secular naming ceremony that people can choose if they wish. Now there's a business idea :lol:

Originally i wanted a wicker man burning on a beach but we'd never get a dry enough day :lol:
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Antiq » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:17 pm

raisindot wrote:You're doing the right thing, Pip. Ultimately, Harry will make his own decision on religion, but most little kids tend to be religious, and are often judgmental of those who don't 'follow the line.' Does he really want to be known as the kid who wasn't christened? It would be a social stigma that would mark him as 'different' not only among his friends, but among your family members as well. The harder choice may be if you're deciding to send him to Sunday School to prepare for Communion. I'm not Christian, and I'm about as much as close to an atheist as an agnostic can be, but both of my kids were circumcised and suffered through years of Hebrew School and were Bar Mitzvahed simply because I didn't want to deprive them of learning about their history and the important rituals of their religion, so at some point when they decide if the want to continue in the faith they at least can come from it from experience.

I have to say mine didn't suffer any social stigma, apart from a brief social discomfort for my daughter at Communion time which she easily came to terms with. Fortunately their schools were perhaps more enlightened than most at the time, and made no issue for them to have to cope with, and they both understood and agreed with the reasoning behind my decision.
Ireland now is not nearly as predominantly Catholic , or even Christian, as it used to be, and schools are very very careful to be sensitive to various beliefs, or non-beliefs, as the case may be.
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Re: Pip Juniors (Harry) Christening

Postby Antiq » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:19 pm

pip wrote:
Antiq wrote:There needs to be a new secular naming ceremony that people can choose if they wish. Now there's a business idea :lol:

Originally i wanted a wicker man burning on a beach but we'd never get a dry enough day :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: So true, it's piddling down right now, and I really wanted to mow my lawn (not!) :D
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