Disc World Cup - *FINAL*

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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:11 pm

Master Calon has made an... ommmm ... how will we put this - passionate, case for WA - I trust his many reiterations in the way of voting is only counted the once however *curtsies* :P ROFLMAO

Ex-catholic myself - the nuns put me right off it, though none were quite as bad as Vorbis of course, which may make him/his role a parody too, but also a grotesque and thus satirical? :roll: And yet I still feel a twinge of sympathy for him all the way through the book. Anyone with a decent imagination can lampoon fairy tales I would argue in this case and, as Terry is one of, if not the best satirist in the business, of course WA is brilliant (as I already said). But it's not a better story than SG, because it is piggybacking on existing and well-known (and therefore easy) story forms.
Any writer who can make the most vile of villains pitiable is at the top of their game and Terry manages it every time (well mostly - nobody's perfect). I love both books, but SG is the deeper and more skilfully written - why? Did Terry get Fatwah'd for it (remember Omnia is a desert country and Om is a desert god and not into turning the other cheek...)? Did the Vatican scream in outrage? Was the book burnt by the Klu Klux Klan? No. (And I am aware that Discworld is probably beneath the notice of said rigid bombasts and pedants so the fact that SG went beneath the radar is not really too surprising - but that says more for their ignorance and lack of vision than Terry's popularity and influence)

Best book. Definitely.
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Postby chuckie » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:25 pm

WA. First read Witches Abroad when working in a hotel kitchen so found the food jokes v. funny.
SG probably my favorate stand alone book, but final choice is WA
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Postby Calon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:53 pm

Cor aint Jan good when she goes off on one heheh :lol:
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Postby Calon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:04 pm

the foreign food jokes were very funny. I loved the absinthe scene and the running of the bulls. Go on Esme its got herbs in it, it its practically medicine.. :lol:
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Sir Terry Pratchett.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:23 pm

Calon - anytime you need a :twisted: 's advocate :wink:

I nearly died of giggling when Magrat accidently 'shuttered' that vampire and Greebo finished him off - my ribs were aching for hours. As for when Greebo was magicked into the bandit prince - well that was pretty cool too - only it wasn't if you know what I mean :lol:
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Postby Calon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:15 pm

a deviled advocat? is that some kind of fancy drink? oh wait I have my specs on now...advocatus diaboli eh? I always new you were a devil Jan van.
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Sir Terry Pratchett.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:20 pm

Mwahahaha! *disappears in fug of sulphur and brimstone* :twisted:
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Postby Calon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:23 pm

see she buggered off in a puff of smoke, and she owes me a fiver too :lol:
The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. Sir Terry Pratchett.
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Postby Jarmara » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:31 pm

My learned friend Jan makes an excellent case for SG, but I ask those who have yet to cast thier vote to consider... What does make a better story? The theme or the characters? While Small Gods does indeed handle religious satire with dexterity and aplomb, it's only that single vein that holds your attention. Brutha, and indeed almost of the cast bar perhaps Om himself has all the depth and character development of Carrot. Once we turn the final page of Small Gods, do we miss Brutha? Do we wander what adventures Simony went on to have? Do we wish that perhaps Terry hadn't run the story forward to Brutha's death so we could have enjoyed yet more tales from and his friends? No, his purpose is served and there was nowhere left to go, nowhere we interested in going.

Witches Abroad though... Rich with characters, characters we can love, identify with, follow! People we can regard almost as family, that we can get to know. The deft hand with which each layer of the Witches' personalities is revealed but never exhausted leads us never to quite know what is coming next. For a moment we feel Granny die, as Magrat did before checking ourselves like Nanny and knowing she wouldn't do that while there was still a fight to be fought. The care with which even incidental characters are drawn, so that we feel the shock of the coachmen's deaths and understand the true insanity and evil that lurks within Lily, the dark that Granny knows could also be within her.

I could go on, but I wouldn't want to embarrass Small Gods any further. Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, I trust you to make the right choice.

:D :wink:
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Postby Tonyblack » Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:49 pm

Yes, I did care about the characters in SG and obviously so did Terry as we did find out what happened to them. Indeed, one great and reoccurring character first appeared in SG. I'm talking about Lu-Tze.

Terry wrote Carpe Jugulum partly to let us (and him) know what had become of the characters in SG.

Another thing - I don't actually like Nanny Ogg. She's too much like some people I know and don't find a bit funny. :P

I think that when the history of Pratchett is written - and it will, because his writing will endure - then Small Gods will be seen as his first Literary Masterpiece. It's the book that has, quite rightly, caused reviwers to mention his name alongside such satirical greats as Swift, Chaucer, Twain and Wodehouse.
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Postby poohbcarrot » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:21 pm

"I don't actually like Nanny Ogg. She's too much like some people I know and don't find a bit funny." - Tonyblack

I was trying to be impartial and uncontroversial here, but having a go at Nanny Ogg?!

How about all those right-on, born again, I've-seen-the- light, I'm right and everyone else will go to hell, I'm not going to drive the atheist bus Christians? Surely everyone knows somebody like that, don't they? I don't find those people funny.

I think Small Gods justifies those people's beliefs.

(sorry for any offence to any fundies)
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Postby poohbcarrot » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:32 pm

It's like saying That Eric Morcombe was brilliant but you didn't like Ernie Wise.

Granny Weatherwax would be an insignificant character without Nanny Ogg. They feed off each other. Take Nanny Ogg out of any witches book and the book wouldn't be fun.
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Postby TheMole » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:48 pm

Sir poohbcarrot, I was very impressed by this World Cup. May I please have your agreement to arrange the same championship (including the same division into groups) also on our Czech Discworld forum :wink: ?
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Postby Tonyblack » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:55 pm

poohbcarrot wrote:It's like saying That Eric Morcombe was brilliant but you didn't like Ernie Wise.

Well I didn't. :)
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Postby Calon » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:00 pm

Granny Weatherwax would be an insignificant character without Nanny Ogg. They feed off each other. Take Nanny Ogg out of any witches book and the book wouldn't be fun.

A point well made Pooh.
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