This made me very sad today

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This made me very sad today

Postby Dotsie » Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:58 pm

I just found out that the teenaged girl in the apartment above mine killed herself yesterday. There were 4 police cars outside when I got home, and I could see they were in her flat, but to be honest that's not completely surprising as she's had some antisocial behaviour issues. I'm just gutted that someone so young, who always had a flat full of people, should be so desperate that she would do this :cry:

Sorry if I've bummed anyone out. I just really needed to talk to someone & Mr Dotsie is at work in Cambridge. I knew I'd get some good sense spoken by the people on here.
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Re: This made me very sad today

Postby Batty » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:25 pm

Dotsie wrote:I knew I'd get some good sense spoken by the people on here.

:!: :?:

Sorry to hear that news, Dotsie. Did she kill herself accidently (i.e. drug overdose), or deliberately?
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Postby poohcarrot » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:30 pm

You once told me (foolishly) that I was good at saying the right thing.

Sh*t will always happen. That's life. There is no rhyme or reason and no master plan. 200,000 people in Haiti had no choice, she did.

It's ironic that it happened on the day after TP's assisted suicide speech.

Don't take it personally.
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Postby Tonyblack » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:36 pm

Sounds like suicide to me. :(

The tragic thing is that if you are depressed and feeling suicidal, it often doesn't matter how many friends you have or how close you are to them. You get it into your head that they'd all be better off without you and that although they are nice people, they don't really care about you.

Depression distorts reality and suicide can become an obsession. Such people will often hide their suicidal tendencies beneath an act of good nature to 'put people off the scent' of their true intentions. That's why a suicide will often come as a huge surprise to friends and family.

Dotsie, I suspect you may be feeling that maybe you could have somehow prevented this and maybe you are feeling frustrated - well I doubt you could have done anything. Suicidal people become very good at acting. The act of suicide, whether successful or attempted, is often something that has been planned for a long time and carefully, almost obsessively hidden, because the victim often feels like it is their escape plan for when things get too much.

The really sad thing is how many people get hurt after the event. they feel like they should have been a better friend, neighbour or family member. I've lost several friends over the years through suicide and I've always felt: if only I'd been there for them.

I now know that it doesn't work like that.
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Postby Doughnut Jimmy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:46 pm

What a horrible thing to happen Dotsie, you have my sympathy

we always feel guilty when these things happen around us but I think Tony was quite right when he says there was nothing you could have done, there's no way to know where people are in their minds if they don't want you to :(
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Postby Dotsie » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:52 pm

Thanks for saying the right things guys.
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Postby Penfold » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:10 pm

I never quite know what to say at times like this, but you have my sympathy and good thoughts. As Tony quite rightly said, there was nothing you could have done - even if you had been there, she would probably have done it later when you weren't (you can't be with someone 24/7, no matter how hard you wish otherwise).
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Postby CrysaniaMajere » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:19 pm

It's incredible how many people can't find around them enough to keep them going on. One could say in these world it's easier now to keep in touch, to get to know each other, but teenagers too often feel lonely and desperate, feeling without a way to escape. I know I did, when I was 16, more than once I cried myself to sleep and I wouldn't have known how to explain it if anyone had known about it and asked me why.
That is so often a problem, one is so down he's not even anymore sad, just so so empty... but I can tell you it was not anybody's fault, it was all inside me. There was a time when I thought about dying, but at 16 I was little more than a child, so I wished it without really considering acting on it, I didn't want my parents to think it was their fault, it wasn't. I think it's never anybody's fault, when things like this happen.
But I understand how much a thing like this can touch your heart.
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Postby Morty » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:16 pm

When the most important person in the world was taken from me I felt as if there was no point going on. Luckily for me some very good friends were there to see me through the darkest days and although everyday is still difficult I have to think of what it would do to those friends if I were to take my own life.

When the stroke hit me again there were days when there seemed very little point in learning to do almost everything again. My friends were there for me but I also had my friends on this forum that came through for me. They know who they are and their PM’s have been printed off and in on the bad days they get brought out and read for inspiration.

Not everyone is so lucky Dotsie but one thing you do need to understand is that there was nothing you could have done to prevent this tragedy. I came very close to ending it all and in the end it was my decision to pull back. My friends took over but make no mistake if I’d wanted to go through with it I would not be typing this post now.

As Mr. Dotsie is away I’m sure that the forum members will rally round and be there for you. I very rarely go to bed before 3am so if you can’t sleep there’s a link to my MSN address on all my posts and I’ll be pleased to bore you to sleep :) :) :) .
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Postby chris.ph » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:52 pm

there is a saying "alone in a crowd" and this sounds as if this is what happened to this young girl
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:51 pm

That's exactly it Chris, and, like Tony's saying with people who have trouble with depression there's this reluctance to let anyone in and interfere in you convincing yourself that you're the problem, no good, no use and it's better for everyone that you're not here anymore.

Very often, like with this poor young lady, they don't want help at all, can't see any reason NOT to die and can't even allow any alternative to death for really obscure, or completely stupid reasons and when you get to that stage there's nowhere else for you, or even think to go for comfort, 'cries for help' simply aren't on the agenda and you see no alternative to seeking oblivion for you. So no - there was nothing that anyone could have done for her as everyone's saying.

Some of us have been at that 'point of no return' ourselves. I was very, very lucky in that I'd worked in a probate registry and seen and talked to people, parents, siblings, lifelong friends or lovers who'd had to come to terms with effectively wrapping up someone's life and they all used to say roughly the same thing...
    "I wish I'd known things had got that bad for them..."
    "If only he/she'd been able to tell me how sad he/she was..."
    "Maybe if we'd known we could have showed them that we loved them and wanted them to stay"
    "They didn't seem to be doing that badly, we had a good laugh the last time I saw them...
    "I wish they hadn't done it..."
It doesn't work that way for some people and so they can only choose to leave forever. The shock and chaos they leave behind them affects and devastates their families, friends, colleagues and people who are even loosely connected with them, like neighbours (((hugs))), shop-workers they saw every day.

It is terrible that they die feeling that way, but there's an end to their suffering at least. I've thought about dying at times and, perhaps because I know the consequences for those left behind, and that the confusion, hurt and pain is passed onto people I love and care about, and won't die with me so I would never do it - I hope anyway.

Your neighbour didn't have any hope and so chose to leave. You couldn't have stopped it happening Dotsie (((more hugs))). :cry:
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Postby Dotsie » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:15 am

I feel more like writing today, so I want to say thank you again. I now realise that some things will just never make sense, including the shocking truth that a beautiful 18-year old with no shortage of money and friends should want to take her life. And I was feeling guilty, even though I didn't recognise it - it was mixed in with the shock.

So, ta. And thanks for your sharing your stories - they sound very painful. I hope no-one here goes through those dark times again.
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Postby Ponder Stibbons » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:09 pm

I'm sorry, Dotsie. Good to know you're feeling better now. I cant really say much in these situations either, and as probably the youngest on this forum i dont really know much about this either, so all i can do is repeat what the others said. You couldn't have done anything. :cry:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:47 pm

Glad to hear the jagged edges are fading Dotsie :)

This Sunday one our neighbours joined a police search for a 24 yr old man who'd gone missing on Thursday after a distressing break-up with his girlfriend, who lives in a nearby village. His car had been found nearby on his route home. They didn't find him then, but yesterday he was found dead in a skip on an industrial estate in Launceston close to where his girlfriend works. He'd hung himself from the tree the skip was under.

Our neighbour's son's girlfriend was the lad's cousin and she's just been up and told us about what happened this morning. It turns out we know the poor man's father who's a local plumber and a really nice man who'd do anything for anyone. Young people, particularly young men (between 15-25) are particularly prone to taking their lives (or attempting to) apparently but this is a good example of how you always have people who do give a damn about you, even people you don't know, because I shudder to think how Tony is feeling at the moment as part of the reason his son was in such a low state was because Tony had been having marital difficulties and had briefly moved out of the house, though he returned and was making another go of things.

If anyone ever thinks suicide is the answer, please, please think about what you're doing and how it's going to effect the people who are closest to you, even if they're the ones causing you pain. Getting up your courage to take your life is hard and I wouldn't ever say it's the coward's way out. :( But it is a very selfish and rejecting action seen in some lights because you will hurt everyone you know in some way and that's sometimes enough to stop you 'doing something stupid', no matter how much it seems to make sense for you at the time. :(
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Postby cols » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:28 am

Dotsie , I cannot add anything to the comments above, but I hope you feel better . HUGS
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