Global Warming

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Postby Morty » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:55 am

Dotsie wrote:This thread certainly moved quickly :lol: But there does seem to be a lot of toot-talking.

Dr T - I'd be interested to hear which branch of science you worked in? And also why you believe everything geologists tell you, but not climatologists? :roll:


He's a Doctor of Music.
Don't listen to him he's rubbish :lol:

I saw this very interesting article on the Interweb.

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Following the recent flooding in the Uk in areas such as cockermouth. a team of leading meteorological scientists have released a report that says:


"Global warming is the cause of these storms. and the houses of parliament are the cause of global warming. all the politicians have so much hot air in them that when they get to Parliament it is not surprising that they are doing so much damage to the enviroment. in fact they produce so much hot air that i am surprised that the houses of parliament have not floated away like a hot air baloon yet!! the amount of hot air being produced by the houses of parliament is having a serious effect on the temperature of our planet. Not only are the houses of parliament causing so much hot air to be produced, they are also producing as much CO2 emissions in a day as the average car does in a year"


One of the main greenhouse gases is carbon dioxide (CO2). As trees grow they take in CO2 from the air. When the wood dies the CO2 is returned to the air. Forest clearance and wood burning (such as happens in tropical rain forests) is increasing the latter half of the process, adding to the CO2 in the atmosphere. Deforestation is now out of control. For example in 1987 an area of the Amazon rain forest the size of Britain was burned, adding 500 million tonnes of CO2 to the atmosphere. The loss of the forests also means that there are fewer trees to absorb CO2. CO2 contributes about 50% to the greenhouse effect.


Of this CO2 about 75% of that is produced by politicians worldwide. and about 25% of that is produced by the houses of parliament, with the Americans coming in a close second at 24% of the CO2 produced by politicians. So, in theory, if we get rid of the politicians we get rid of a large portion of greenhouse gases and thus do alot to help save the enviroment.


One parliament spokesman released this statement following the reports release:


"This report is a fake. there is nothing to prove that we are a major contributor to greenhouse gases. or that we produce a lot of hot air. The scientists who wrote this report are also frauds and are currently being detained under the speaking against parliament act. members of the public should note that we are doing everything to try and stop global warming."


The parliament spokesman was picked up after the press conference by his private helicopter which promptly whisked him back to his home 5 streets away.

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Postby poohcarrot » Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:58 pm

My turn to talk some toot! :lol:

Earth crust displacement theory. (The following is MY theory only, which I've held for approx 20 minutes and it's total toot.)

*Throughout the life of the earth there have been many ice ages, which all somehow disappeared.

*Ice tends to builds up at the poles.

*The Earth's crust is basically floating on a magma *does Dr Evil impression

*Now imagine if one of the poles becomes top heavy with billions and billions of tons of ice.

*This could cause the whole Earth's crust to suddenly and violently shift.

*Tsunamis of biblical proportions would ravage the Earth (Noah's flood)causing mass extinction of species.

*For the sake of argument, let's say the Earth shifted 45 degrees. There would now be new poles where the ice would start to build up. The existing ice would melt because the the previous poles would now be situated in the tropics.

*This would happen again and again, and could account for the extinction of the dinosaurs, why ice ages finished and why people find fish skeletons at the tops of mountains.

*Therefore global warming is good because it lowers the possibility of violent crust movements.

(Utter twaddle! :roll: )
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Postby Morty » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:09 pm

poohcarrot wrote:My turn to talk some toot! :lol:

Earth crust displacement theory. (The following is MY theory only, which I've held for approx 20 minutes and it's total toot.)

*Throughout the life of the earth there have been many ice ages, which all somehow disappeared.

*Ice tends to builds up at the poles.

*The Earth's crust is basically floating on a magma *does Dr Evil impression

*Now imagine if one of the poles becomes top heavy with billions and billions of tons of ice.

*This could cause the whole Earth's crust to suddenly and violently shift.

*Tsunamis of biblical proportions would ravage the Earth (Noah's flood)causing mass extinction of species.

*For the sake of argument, let's say the Earth shifted 45 degrees. There would now be new poles where the ice would start to build up. The existing ice would melt because the the previous poles would now be situated in the tropics.

*This would happen again and again, and could account for the extinction of the dinosaurs, why ice ages finished and why people find fish skeletons at the tops of mountains.

*Therefore global warming is good because it lowers the possibility of violent crust movements.

(Utter twaddle! :roll: )


PMSL :lol:

It all made perfect sense until you signed off ''Utter twaddle'' :lol: :lol:
Global warming is just a lot of hot air :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:15 pm

kakaze wrote:
Dr Theobald wrote:
One has to wonder whether the huge forces that cause the geoplate movements that lead to earthquakes and volcanoes are also a significant factor in the drivers for climatic change? Personally I think that is likely.

Personally, I think it is unquestionable. Active volcanos pump out huge amounts of greenhouse gases and, when they blow, dust & ash. When continents move they create moutains, which make glaciers, change air currents, river courses, and push land higher which can turn a forest into a desert.

Dr Theobald wrote:Remember that MOST of this earth is a turbulent inner mass of molten rock and movements / currents within that molten mass can have some quite devastating effects on the thin crust that we occupy. For example, consider the effects should the magnetic pole move AGAIN - it most definitely has moved in the past as can easily be shown by geologists. In that the new magnetic north would relocate to the spin axis that could mean (as an example) the current Sahara being where we now have the north pole - and pro-rata reallocation of continents to totally different climatic regions. Not a happy thought, especially sice it is thought, note - thought, that the past movements of the poles have occurred over very short times.

Does the axis of the Earth's core affect the axis of the Earth? I know that they are currently something like 18 degrees off of each other (which is why we have a "magnetic north" and a "true north"). I know that the core can turn over pretty quickly but, in these circumstances, it's hard for me to see how this would affect the Earth's axis much.

A clumsy demonstration - a computer mouse (wired) has a free-rolling ball inside it, so the cursor can match the mouse's movement in flattened dimensions (length & breadth or diagonally but not in height). The ball moves, the mouse does too but it only in one plane - it can't roll over in different planes like the ball does inside.

The ball is the earth's core (which will move in any direction or more than 2) - the mouse the crust on its rotational (24 hour turn) and its orbital path (365.25 days) - ergo not doing 'height' as well. Just like the mouse and it's ball*, the crust and the core's directional movements are NOT interdependent.

Gravity is a more powerful force than magnetism and, like kakaze says the sun and the moon take care of keeping the Earth's crustal alignment stable so the core can spin away inside as much as it likes.

Continental drift (tectonic shifting) is another matter and much, much slower - Antarctica wasn't always at the south pole and Britain and western Europe were once in what are now the tropics (hence hippos in the Thames :wink: ). Note the different continent movements which are consequent more to gravitational spin than deep core activity. Climatically Britain shifted in the same axis as is currently in place and so we now have a temperate climate instead of a tropical one.

The earth's rotational/orbital axis does shift but not by very much and it's more like how a top spins and not rolling like a ball. Our axis would never shift so much that you'd get the poles turning equatorial - that's impossible unless we lose the sun or the moon.... Gravitational pull rules :lol:

See - it really is a load of old balls :lol:

* Or if you'd rather like the construction of love balls... :twisted:
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Postby Morty » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:36 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote:
kakaze wrote:
Dr Theobald wrote:
One has to wonder whether the huge forces that cause the geoplate movements that lead to earthquakes and volcanoes are also a significant factor in the drivers for climatic change? Personally I think that is likely.

Personally, I think it is unquestionable. Active volcanos pump out huge amounts of greenhouse gases and, when they blow, dust & ash. When continents move they create moutains, which make glaciers, change air currents, river courses, and push land higher which can turn a forest into a desert.

Dr Theobald wrote:Remember that MOST of this earth is a turbulent inner mass of molten rock and movements / currents within that molten mass can have some quite devastating effects on the thin crust that we occupy. For example, consider the effects should the magnetic pole move AGAIN - it most definitely has moved in the past as can easily be shown by geologists. In that the new magnetic north would relocate to the spin axis that could mean (as an example) the current Sahara being where we now have the north pole - and pro-rata reallocation of continents to totally different climatic regions. Not a happy thought, especially sice it is thought, note - thought, that the past movements of the poles have occurred over very short times.

Does the axis of the Earth's core affect the axis of the Earth? I know that they are currently something like 18 degrees off of each other (which is why we have a "magnetic north" and a "true north"). I know that the core can turn over pretty quickly but, in these circumstances, it's hard for me to see how this would affect the Earth's axis much.



See - it really is a load of old balls :lol:

* Or if you'd rather like the construction of love balls... :twisted:


I was just being polite when I said Global Warming was a load of hot air :lol:

I have no idea what Love Balls are......Do I need to go on Google or are they something I don't need to know about :oops:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:42 pm

the old chap wrote:I have no idea what Love Balls are......Do I need to go on Google or are they something I don't need to know about

I'd try Wiki myself - and no, unless your blood pressure needs elevating :wink:

They're innocent little spheres within spheres - it's where you stick 'em that makes 'em naughty! :twisted:
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Postby bogieman » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:50 pm

OOoooo I am enjoying this thread.

Can I just ask if you think global warming is a fact.......
Who is going to suffer for the change, are YOU willing to turn the electric and gas of.
Are you willing to die rather than take antibiotics
are you willing to use your excretions in the garden and eat only what you grow.
Do you catch rain water to drink rather than use the mains.

It's ok all these dogooders saying save the planet but they ALL go home at night and switch the telly on to see what has been happening to this world throughout the day.

If you are one of these save the world people then tell me you do not use fuel and you grow your own food................oh hang on if you tell me that means you can't be one of them as you would not have the internet. :P

No one is out to save the WORLD we are all out to save ourselves the world will take care of it's self as it has don for quite a long time. We need to invest not in global warming savings but new technology to use when the oil and coal runs out and the cold weather comes in.

Some one also mentioned shortage of food................
In the UK we pay farmers NOT to grow food to keep the price up

Sort of says it all doesn't it.

Ok sorry gripe and soapbox grunting over .......................who is going to be first to tell me I am wrong :lol:
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Postby Morty » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:56 pm

Jan Van Quirm wrote:
the old chap wrote:I have no idea what Love Balls are......Do I need to go on Google or are they something I don't need to know about

I'd try Wiki myself - and no, unless your blood pressure needs elevating :wink:

They're innocent little spheres within spheres - it's where you stick 'em that makes 'em naughty! :twisted:


I am a Gentleman Jan so I always leave Parental Control switched on when surfing the net. All ‘’ENTRIES’’ for Love Balls come up as banned sites on my computer.

Don’t worry I’ll ask my inflatable girlfriend later on tonight. :lol:
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Postby poohcarrot » Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:59 pm

:lol:
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Postby kakaze » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:56 pm

bogieman wrote:Can I just ask if you think global warming is a fact.......


I would have to say "yes", though I'm not convinced at how much of an affect humans have on the process. Mr. Gore's video was pretty persuasive.

bogieman wrote:Who is going to suffer for the change, are YOU willing to turn the electric and gas of.


Yes, I already do.

bogieman wrote:Are you willing to die rather than take antibiotics


No, but what do antibiotics have to do with global warming?

bogieman wrote:are you willing to use your excretions in the garden and eat only what you grow.


I'm planning to buy a house in 2010. There are two houses here that I like; one has 0.25 acres and the other has 0.3. Either way, I'm planning to build several raised bed vegetable gardens and grow a lot of our produce.

Maybe I'll raise a few guinea pigs for meat...

bogieman wrote:Do you catch rain water to drink rather than use the mains.


Yes, but not for drinking. Only for grey-water.

I gave my mom two half wine casks for the use of rain barrels. They work well and look nice, but we need to get some Koi or something to eat the mosquito larva.

Image

bogieman wrote:If you are one of these save the world people then tell me you do not use fuel and you grow your own food................oh hang on if you tell me that means you can't be one of them as you would not have the internet. :P


Although I think this family may not have a TV, they do have a computer with internet access. They're completely off-grid; their computer and water heater is run off of solar energy, and everything else (washing machine, blender, etc) is manually powered.

http://urbanhomestead.org/

Actually, you don't need to be off-grid to "save the planet". You could achieve more by just not eating meat.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:05 pm

bogieman wrote:No one is out to save the WORLD we are all out to save ourselves the world will take care of it's self as it has don for quite a long time. We need to invest not in global warming savings but new technology to use when the oil and coal runs out and the cold weather comes in.

Some one also mentioned shortage of food................
In the UK we pay farmers NOT to grow food to keep the price up

Sort of says it all doesn't it.

Ok sorry gripe and soapbox grunting over .......................who is going to be first to tell me I am wrong :lol:

I won't argue with you in the slightest bogieman or with the person who said that climate change is a nice little bit of political misdirection especially in light of various military policies that get past on the nod at the UN (I'll leave that one to pooh).

To quote myself we're are a vile species and of course if global warming/climate suits how we need to live then we don't give a monkeys (apes and assorted mammalian and other cuddly vertebrates) about planetary weather trends - when it does threaten how we live then we start whining and eventually we'll do something about it - so long as it doesn't make us too uncomfortable in the process. We've all been making valid points in this thread on ways to help a little bit here and there and a lot if enough of us do it, but that's part of the problem. China and India can quite rightly tell us to go and get stuffed as their industrialisation process may or may not be as 'bad' as ours was a few centuries back - it's on a larger scale true, but our western industries were very well established and widespread as well as very, very dirty indeed over those centuries even though they're now beginning to clean up - a bit.

And even with all that going on, we're all still here so why berate the 'new' up and coming industrialised nations? What use will cutting back on emerging technology in Asia do if N. America can still get cheap oil and drive around in huge energy-inefficient motors - hasn't that done a load of damage to the environment, not to mention over here in Europe although, we're now gearing up for smaller and more efficient usage of unsustainable energy sources etc, 'cos our oil supply lines aren't quite so amenable and affordable. We only change if we have to, so yes there's a lot of merit in trying to be as green as you can be, but the planetary climate changes anyway.

If the US went over to clean(ish) diesel or unleaded gas tomorrow that doesn't mean the San Andreas fault won't break up taking most of California down with it or set Mount St. Helens blowing up again - not to mention Anak Krakatau (child of Krakatoa) and the Pacific 'Ring of Fire' detonating and then there really will be a natural nuclear winter we won't come out of so easily - nothing we do is going to prevent that.

The Ice Caps are melting - we're due an Ice Age so they'll be back again and then some in a 'few' centuries and sea levels will then shrink drastically and the Maldives can be a combined dry land nation again and Bangladesh can revel in being hillcountry for a while...

It's all about balance in the end - we are making the world an unpleasant place for us to live in as sentient animals, so yes, we must do something about it, but it'll get even more unpleasant anyway, just not as fast or as radically as these smug gits who are travelling Copenhagen want us to start getting panicked about. As a species we (and our neanderthal and simian ancesters) have survived an Ice Age or two without any technology to help us at all thank you very much... We're clever creatures who can adapt to serious environmental changes - look where we can live if we put out minds to it! We know how to survive in space or underwater for heaven's sake! No other vertebrate animal can successfully live in extremes of climate like we can (only bacteria and insects can do that) so we could find a way but as bogieman says we've gone 'critical' in terms of global population and how we can sustain. So that's the real challenge for us. Rebalance how we all can survive. The world will see to itself as always.

Morty - I hope your girlfriend's made from sustainable products! :wink:
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That meeting

Postby Dr Theobald » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:15 pm

Good Evening all

I must say that if the participants in a certain Climate Conference in Denmark talked or thought half of the sense expresses by contributors to this thread then I think we would rate their meeting a success.

As is more likely the event will be used as a political stage from which individuals and nations will seek to further their own careers or economies rather than seek to make any real progress.

It is right to curtail burning of fossil fuels - but more because it is a criminal waste of a chemical raw material than because of additions to global warming. Similarly it is right to stop decimating the forests because again they are the potential sources of so many chemical materials that WILL benefit mankind. They are also pretty. It is right to stop polluting the rivers, seas and air with chemicals that are (increasingly) shown to have adverse physiological effects.

However, all of those have bugger all to do with global warming

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Re: That meeting

Postby Morty » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:32 pm

Dr Theobald wrote:
However, all of those have bugger all to do with global warming

Dr T


What about biodegradable girlfriends. :oops:
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Postby Tonyblack » Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:38 pm

bogieman wrote:OOoooo I am enjoying this thread.

Can I just ask if you think global warming is a fact.......
Who is going to suffer for the change, are YOU willing to turn the electric and gas of.
Are you willing to die rather than take antibiotics
are you willing to use your excretions in the garden and eat only what you grow.
Do you catch rain water to drink rather than use the mains.

It's ok all these dogooders saying save the planet but they ALL go home at night and switch the telly on to see what has been happening to this world throughout the day.

If you are one of these save the world people then tell me you do not use fuel and you grow your own food................oh hang on if you tell me that means you can't be one of them as you would not have the internet. :P

No one is out to save the WORLD we are all out to save ourselves the world will take care of it's self as it has don for quite a long time. We need to invest not in global warming savings but new technology to use when the oil and coal runs out and the cold weather comes in.

Some one also mentioned shortage of food................
In the UK we pay farmers NOT to grow food to keep the price up

Sort of says it all doesn't it.

Ok sorry gripe and soapbox grunting over .......................who is going to be first to tell me I am wrong :lol:


Technology and science do not have to be separate from a wish to make the planet a better place to live. They've been helping to do that for a long time. When Londoners were dying from cholera it was technology in building sewer systems that came to the rescue. When people were dying from smog then smokeless technology went a long way to solving that problem.

Science and technology are giving us cars that use less petrol and produce less pollution and science and technology is producing cleaner electricity through solar and wind power. You don't have to have one or the other - it's possible to live in a 'Green' world with a better environment and have cheap, clean power.

I'd personally rather live in a cleaner, healthier world with unpolluted rivers and seas - wouldn't you? Even aside from climate change - we should always strive to make the world we have a better place - not just for us, but for everything that lives here. It's not our world after all - we just happen to be one of the species living here. :wink:
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Re: That meeting

Postby Tina a.k.a.SusanSto.Helit » Sat Dec 05, 2009 8:15 pm

Mortimer Postlethwaite wrote:
Dr Theobald wrote:
However, all of those have bugger all to do with global warming

Dr T


What about biodegradable girlfriends. :oops:


Ahem... I know a certain "Lord" who could use a couple of Biodegradable Blow-up Dolls. :evil: :twisted:


edit: and I agree with Tony, I fear that I cannot save the planet by myself. :( However, if we all do lots of little things perhaps we have a chance.
Aha! So, Bob's yer uncle... very clever.
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