Global Warming

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Global Warming

Postby Dr Theobald » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:29 pm

Since those nominally in charge are all off for a jolly (at our expense) and will attempt but fail to change attitudes to the so-called global warming issues I thought the following may offer some light relief

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Dr T (a sincere global warming sceptic - predicting that the post will "raise a few issues")
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:43 pm

Dr T

You can travel in time, can't you? Why don't you nip ahead a couple of hundred years and see what the climate's like? Then report back with your findings and tell us if we have cause to worry or not.

Anyway, where's the money? (as Vimes would say)

If global warming is a hoax, who benefits from propagating the myth?
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Postby Dotsie » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:15 pm

The average global temperature has been up and down like a... well, whatever, for the last 4.5 billion years, so why would it be fixed now? Just for our comfort perhaps? How nice. :P

(Edited to put a smilie in, so do not appear to be picking on a newbie :wink: )
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Postby Quark » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:09 pm

The silly thing is when people start telling us how the world will be utterly ruined by global warming. It won't. Earth's looked far worse for wear at points in its history than anything we've done to it, and, like Dotsie says, temperature goes up and down all the time. Humans are just notoriously fragile.
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Postby Dotsie » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:25 pm

I think the people who are worried for the Earth are also worried for humans :lol:
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:58 pm

We are (collectively, not individually - necessarily) a vile species and deserve extinction far more than the dinosaurs ever did - however evolution being clever like wot it is we'll manage to avoid it somehow or other I expect. :roll:

And if climate change does result in another Ice Age (and we're bound to have one some time or other in a few more millennia or so) then look on the bright side - if we're still around we'll all have to go and live in the tropics or equatorial regions so maybe we'll be forced to sort out a more equitable attitude on fertility and agricultural matters and get the global population and feeding it under control finally. And maybe those that survive won't make such a cods of it all like wot we've done. :(

So yeah - enjoy this jolly Gordy. At least it'll be the last one of this type he gets but that's another matter entirely :twisted:
Last edited by Jan Van Quirm on Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:58 pm

I could be completely wrong here (and very insulting) , but the way I look at it is this;

There are three kinds of people in the world.

1. People who believe in God. The world was made for them and God will make sure nothing bad happens.

2. People who believe in science and realise that while the dinosaurs lasted approx 180 million years, humankind will be lucky to suvive for 200,000 years.

3. People who don't think.
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Postby Jan Van Quirm » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:04 pm

*Aspires to be a #3 person* :lol:
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Postby poohcarrot » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:09 pm

Is #2 person!
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Postby Dandelion » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:53 pm

poohcarrot wrote:Anyway, where's the money? (as Vimes would say)

If global warming is a hoax, who benefits from propagating the myth?


uhm... there is a lot of money involved.. whole branches of scientists do research about global warming - and finance their life with that. Many organizations argue about global warming - pro and contra - and for a lot of people it's a job already to do that discussing.. Newspapers use global warming as a way to sell their papers with pro or contra news in it.. and.. and.. and.. so many more people really make a living now from global warming (.. or at least the discussion about it).

In his book State of Fear Michael Crichton uses some of those people as his main protagonists. The scientific value of that book is a point of discussion, as most data about global warming can be interpreted differently depending on one's base point of view.

But the part of the story about there being a whole industry living from the discussion about global warming is a fact.
So, Pooh, there's the money. And a whole lot of it. Millions of $ or EUR..

My personal view on global warming:

a) I'm not too sure I can trust people who can't even give a clear prediction about how the weather will be in three weeks time about their predictions how the weather will be in a 100 years.. not that it would be important to me personally, as I'm supposed to be quite dead in 100 years..

b) there's a new ice age due to be coming around in the next couple 1000 years.. so global warming seems a good idea if it keeps the glaciers from going down to the mediterranian again.. right?

c) Greenland once was exactly that. A habitable region where even crops would grow to feed a growing population. Then the climate changed and the ice came. Thousands died. The north american region which was first found by vikings - long before that guy from italy - and which was even north of New York - which wasn't there then, of course - was called Vinland by them. Land of the Wine. Which grew there. I'm not so sure there's any wine growing in eastern Canada/Newfoundland right now.. Climate Change, anyone?

And to finish it off, a little joke I read just recently:

Two planets meet. Says the one "I'm so sick.. I got infected with humans". Answers the other "Don't worry.. You'll get over it in a couple millennia.."
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Postby Lord Ponsamby-Smyth » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:21 pm

poohcarrot wrote:I could be completely wrong here (and very insulting) , but the way I look at it is this;

There are three kinds of people in the world.

1. People who believe in God. The world was made for them and God will make sure nothing bad happens.

2. People who believe in science and realise that while the dinosaurs lasted approx 180 million years, humankind will be lucky to suvive for 200,000 years.

3. People who don't think.


Umm this has got me thinking, as I dont really seem to fit neatly into any of the three projects.

1. I am a agnostic.

2. Darwin tried to show us a link of where we came from, and how we evolved using science...which has more holes in it that a factory of polo mints.

3. Its not a question of not thinking, its not being able to come up with a suitable explanation.

But yes I do see Global warming, whether it be man made, or a shift in nature, or some trickery by the Bilderburgers, et al, I dont know, but the number of cricket matches being called of due to wet wickets is a sure sign of weather change.
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Postby swreader » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:39 pm

Pooh, I would suggest (at least in this country that you add 2A - People who believing that God made man the stewards of the welfare of the earth are as concerned as those who believe in science and global warming. Both groups I think believe that there is a substantial danger of making the Earth nearly uninhabitable within the next 100 years if humans continue their present actions.

I certainly fit into both 2 & 2A (though not conventionally religious). There are, however, far too many people who seem not to see this as a mounting, immediate problem, caused by humans primarily, and dependant on humans to stop the process (if indeed it can be stopped). At the present rate of global warming, we will certainly see continuation of devastating droughts (as in Australia, sub-Saharan Africa, and quite probably throughout the tropics). The evidence of global warming is now recognized as UNEQUIVOCAL by the United Nations. The melting of sea ice will undoubtedly drown a number of island nations in the next 30 years if nothing is done. Hence the President of the Maldive's pronouncement as recently as November 13th that "We Will Not Die Quietly!

Dandelion, don't want to pick on a newbie--but please check your facts and do a bit more reading. Michael Crichton's State of Fear has been discredited as an unbiased statement for years. Greenland never had more than a small area of habitable land on the southern and western tip, and historically never had a population as high as 2000. While Iceland has had a number of climate changes, the death of the settlements in the 14th and 15th century seem to have been the result only partially of increasing ice, but also to poor farming practices, and to armed conflict with the Inuit peoples.

As to your "follow the money" -- a more realistic evaluation would be that no single nation and most likely even all the nations of the world can afford to deal with the dislocations caused by climate change should things continue pretty much as they are for more than 50 to 100 years. Those nations that convent to green economies will be in the best position, but that will not help unless all the nations of the world co-operate in finding ways to stop global warming. The Australian government has now officially recognized that the effects of global warming they have felt in the past few years (drought especially) are permanent. They are now trying to find ways to live with the consequences.

As all of you can tell, this is a subject I am rather passionate about--and equally very pessimistic.
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Postby chris.ph » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:06 pm

im definately a 2

when i was in the antarctic in the early nineties we where allready making a whole in the ozone the size of the continent, so we banned cfc's

have you seen pictures of the cities at the height of the industrial revolution, then we were pumping out a damn site more noxious crap than we are now. the tawe in swansea was probably worse than the ankh, the copper works and tin works pumped all their mecury and arsenic straight into the rivers not including all the crap that was coming down the valley from the coal mines. now you can salmon fish in the river so wee are trying tp improve our enviroment
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We change, but on what basis

Postby Dr Theobald » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:24 pm

I do note the statement that "the evidence of global warming is now recognized as UNEQUIVOCAL by the United Nations" the latter does not mean that the United Nations are correct in their interpretation. As a scientist, and that is what I am, I believe that their interpretation and statement are based on biased views. As a scientist I have at least read their report in detail.

I do not at all dispute that the global climate is changing. I do not dispute that mankind has some influence on that change/ rate of change. What I do dispute is that mankind is the prime mover. In the same vein I do not believe that mankind will be able to have more than trivial influence on the path that such global climate change will take in future years.

Mankind CAN alter the environment of course. If areas are denuded of trees then there will be (say) flooding/ landslips etc. If seas/ rivers are polluted then the aquatic life will suffer. Those are things that mankind can and should alter for the good of all. However, global climate and related phenomena are beyond our means. Take the example of El Nino. We still do not know the root cause of the massive sea current shifts that can cause dramatic cyclic changes in weather pattern - changes that have been recorded for centuries.

Similarly we know that the Romans came to Britain not only for our copper but also because our grapes made exceptional wine. A 1000 or so years later the 'dark ages' saw hundreds of years of wet and cold weather - and yet at the time of Elizabeth 1 the summers were hot and dry and the winters deeply cold. Victorian Christmas cards always show snow. That was not ONLY because Prince Albert brought Germanic ideas to UK but because Victorian winters were snowy. So, cyclic changes in our weather, indeed in global weather, are nothing new.

These are controversial views. They are my views and I stand by them

I will add that as I near the age of 70 I have another thought - I could DO with a bit of global warming so (just in case) I think I will nip out and start up the 4x4 and let it run for an hour or two.

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Postby chris.ph » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:35 pm

i thought it was snowy in victorian times because krakatoa blew up and basically caused a mini nuclear winter :?:
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